Rick at Palace Hotel, Madrid.
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YES MUSEUM: "Return to The Centre of The Earth is possibly your best work in the last 20 years and a dream that has come true. When did you start to think about this project and how long it took to write and arrange the music?
RICK WAKEMAN: I have to go back eight years, and I was in Italy, and I did an interview with an Italian journalist at the hotel, and when we finished the interview -he's a very nice man, I can't remember his name, but he's a very nice man- and we were just talking about music and things. And he just said to me: "You know? I bet you wish you could do "Journey to The Centre of The Earth" again now. I said: "Why?". He said: "Well, technology has come on, you know there is now CD whereas before there were only records, also keyboards, etc. And for the next few days, I was on tour with YES with Union Tour, and I thought: "You know? That's a good idea!". And I came up with the idea, I thought: "In 1994 it will be 20 years, so what I could do, I could re-record "Journey to The Centre of The Earth" at a live concert, maybe a little bit of new music, and make the 20th Anniversary". And I thought: "This is a very good idea". I went to New York with the YES Union Tour, and I spoke to a very great friend of mine at Arista Records, and said: "I've got this fantastic idea!", and he said: "What's your fantastic idea?", and I said: "To do a concert of "Journey to The Centre of The Earth" with new keyboards, and record it live with new technology, add a bit of more music, put it on CD, isn't a great idea?", and he said: "No, is a really bad idea, is a stupid idea". I said: "Why?", and he said: "First of all when you did "Journey to The Centre of The Earth" your recorded it and wrote it with what you knew existed with instruments and recording techniques, so you pushed as far you could go. Now if you do it again, is different because you would not be pushing anything, and it was for the second period of time it was written, even it could still be played nice, you shouldn't do it, is a mistake." So I said: "What do you think that I should do?", and he said: "You should do another epic, another big thing because that is what you are really good at, with completely new music, completely new idea, but not now". I said: "When?" and he said: "You'll know when the right time is, I don't know, you'll know". So I said: "You can't tell me? You say that my idea is terrible, I should do a big epic but you don't know when. And I said: "You are the possible record company? and he said "Yeah".
YM: He is a good friend!
RW: He is a good friend, absolutely, yeah. A very wise friend. And I do listen sometimes to people whom I respect. And, it's so funny because I sort of forgot all about it. And then 3 years ago, in the space of 2 months, I got four telephone calls from four different record companies, very strange, and they all said: "You know there is a big lot of interest in musicians from the '70s who are still playing and doing all different sort of things from that period, and looking at the big epic. Would you like to do another epic?". And by the time of the first call I thought: "Perhaps this is what my friend Tom meant because it appears to be a good time". So they asked me to do a budget of what I thought it could cost, and it was really expensive, and three of the record companies said OK. So I said: "Let's start looking for a new idea, and I went back to Jules Verne and I looked to "Around the world in 80 days", the book, and I started writing, starting putting some ideas together, and then, it was crazy because, suddenly, every time you turn on the news on the television, somebody was going after a balloon! You open a newspaper and there is somebody in a balloon trying to go around the world, you open the window and there is a balloon that goes by.
YM: Oh, I know who's that man! Brandon is the man!
RW: Richard Brandson! And I thought: "No, no, this is crazy", because I worked out that I would finish the project by early 1999. And I thought, that's gonna be round about the time somebody is actually going to manage to go round the globe, and everybody is gonna think I did it because they were doing that. So I was in a strange situation of having four record companies who wanted to do a big project, but I haven't got one. So I read an article in the newspaper from Stephen Spielberg who was talking about have sequels for making films, how you have a story and you spin up from the story for a whole new story, but you have a relationship, which is very comfortable for the people who listen to a whole new story, new characters, but there's still a relationship. So I thought it could be fun to imagine if Jules Verne were still alive, and Spielberg had gone to see Jules Verne and said: Hey Jules, I really like your "Journey to The Centre of The Earth", somebody has already made a film of it, I really want to make another film, so you need to write a new sequel, a new story, another "Journey to The Centre of The Earth". So I read his original book and wrote a sequel, a new story based on three people who wanted to do the same journey that has done before, and these three people start off the same and arrive at the entrance of the volcano, but then in the Jules Verne's book it says that the shadow from the sun holds on the central entrance of the three. So I made them descend from another entrance so they could go down and happen the new journey. The other thing I did was I gave the new travelers no names, because they can be the person who is listening, can be one of them, so it doesn't say whether is a man or a woman...
YM: Even it could be Ozzy Osbourne! Even!
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Rick & Adam Wakeman live in Argentina 93.
RW: Absolutely!, anything you ask, yeah! So I did that and told the companies, and really liked the idea. And then I went to speak to them, and they said: "How do you see the band?". And I said: "I don't see the band as a one thing, the orchestra as one thing, and the choir as one thing. I see everything as a complete whole thing. So is not the band doing the backing track and an orchestra, I want the orchestra sometimes to play rock things, heavy metal, whatever, I want the band playing a classical thing". And they said: "Well, you don't need to go too far, just do the songs and a bit of the story and orchestra". I said: "No, no, no, you don't understand it!". They said: "That's fine, just do the record now". And I was really worried if it couldn't be done properly. My two older boys Oliver and Adam both said: "If you can't do it properly, you shouldn't do it". If you can't do as you really want to do it, say no". And literally just about to say "No, I'm not going to do it". It gets quite complicated, it is complicated actually... I've got a great friend in America called Nic Caciappo.
YM: He runs the YES Information Service, isn't it?
RW: That's right. He's a great great friend of mine. He is also a great friend of another man called Dwight Dereiter who works for EMI in California, and I told Nic, I can't fight with them, I think I'm not going to do it. He said: "Why?", I said: "They don't understand what I wanted to be, and I can't make any demo, because how can you make any demo of something like that?". So he was going for dinner with Dwight Dereiter, he just mentioned it, and Dwight Dereiter said: "Have you got a copy of the synopsis of what Rick wants to do?". And he said: "No, but I can get one". So he showed it to Dwight Dereiter and he said: "I really like this. The answer for this is through a classical because they will understand". So he took it to the president in America, he said: "Yeah, I like this. But because Rick is in Europe it has to go through Europe, so then sent it to London, to the head of EMI Classics in London, a man called Richard Lyttelton who has enormous experience with classical, but he's also great experienced with rock, he was the man who signed Queen to EMI. He's so knowledgeable. He found me and said: "Please come to London, and come to dinner". So I came to dinner not really hopeful, just the opposite. He said: "Question one: Your "Return to The Centre of The Earth" project, have you signed to any label?". I said no. "OK. I want to talk to you about why I think you should be on EMI Classics. Explain to me what you really want to". And I told him, and he said "Fantastic!". And I said: "Do you know I can't pay you anything, I can't show you now". He said: "Of course you can't, but I understand it. And anything we can give you we will give you". It was just absolutely tremendous! And it took another month too for the contracts, but I do already start the work because I knew that was right. So I'm very glad that I took my first advice in Arista records who said: "Don't do it now. Wait for the time to be right". And I'm grateful to my two boys who said: "Don't sign the contract. You must wait or don't do it at all". And by listening to these two people's advice I was able to produce exactly, or beyond what I dreamt it to be because everybody who took part just gave more and more, and more, and I never ever thought that I would ever get the chance to do it. I am nearly over 50 this year, and someone told me five years ago: "You know? when you're 50 someone will give you the finance to make the dream". And I would laugh.
YM: Well, you never thought that "Fragile" would reach the top of the charts, and it happened. So life is like that!
RW: True, true, is very true.
YM: We know you're going to put "Return to The Centre of The Earth" onstage. Is possibly Tenerife - Canary Islands, Spain- the first place to open the Tour?
RW: Yeah, that's what we're planning, in fact, I've got a bag full of faxes from Tenerife. Originally I wanted to try to do it as close as possible to the Teide volcano, but it's going to be difficult.
YM: It could erupt suddenly and it would be very inconvenient!
RW: Well is a very ecological area, so it's very difficult. The good thing about Tenerife is, and that is my dream for the premier, wherever you are, you have the mount Teide volcano behind you. So is perfect. I love the island very much cause I spent a lot of time, and I've got great friends there -Note: In fact, Rick owns a country house in Tenerife, where he tries to get a suntan every time he can. Is also that, you know when people do premieres they do premieres in New York or London, or maybe Los Angeles. I think people have lost their imagination. "We're gonna do a premiere. OK, London!", you know. And the thing is: How many premieres can you remember now? I can't remember any because they're all in NY or London. So I look for something different. And I love Tenerife! And it got everything, it got the volcano, and we're going to film it, my men want to film it, and when we make the film, obviously there will be a computer holographic and make the Teide explode...
YM: No more plastic dinosaurs!
RW: No more plastic dinosaurs. That's the plan. We have to work very fast because the cut-off date is June 1st. The problem is that is very expensive, very very expensive, with orchestra, choir, and, you know, we need to talk to Tenerife Symphony Orchestra, because they are fantastic, but first of all, we need to get permission from Tenerife's government to know if we can do it, there are people working on that now. Is very expensive and it needs sponsorship. Now already we have sponsors, but they're waiting for the CD sales.
YM: But the CD is doing very well, it reached the 34 in the UK charts.
RW: Yeah, but it has just been released everywhere else in the world, one week before I think in Spain.
YM: Yeah, last week. And we can't stop listening to the CD every day.
RW: Thank you, that's great. The thing is the sponsors says: "Look, we have the money, we will sponsor the show, but if the CD doesn't sell very well it is crazy for us put on shows, I understand, so we'll wait and see after maybe a month, six weeks, how the CD everywhere is doing. If it's doing OK and well, then we will say OK, we do the concerts. So it's a terrible time for me because I don't know for sure how many concerts, if any, until perhaps the beginning of June.
YM: And you have a solo tour now in the UK.
RW: Yeah, we start in a couple of weeks now. It starts for many reasons, one is that ... I want to say my wife thank you for letting me do everything, and also because I finish the tour in June, so it means I have plenty to keep me busy, cause otherwise, I'd wonder how the CD is, I want to do the concerts, you know... It keeps me busy. But I desperately want to do the concerts. Everybody who is taking part wants to do the concerts. I'm happy with what I've done, but I think I would feel very miserable if there were no sponsors.
YM: No, it won't happen. I know so.
RW: I hope so.
YM: This is going by itself, I think this is the best thing you've recorded in 20 years!
RW: Yeah, you know that the great thing with this album is I had the time, is EMI never put any pressure, "Must have it now, must have it now!" : Never. And when I was ill, I couldn't finish it to the time they wanted it, they were fantastic!, and the hospital said: "It will be at least two months till you can work again", so they said: "Then make it three months". You know, they were so good! And also with the financial side, we wanted Patrick Stewart, and he couldn't come to England and it was going to be very expensive, so they said: "Go to Hollywood and do it". And when you've got that, for example on the mixing, which was very expensive to do because we had lots of special computers software made to help with the mix, we had 96 tracks that incredibly needed computer helps to mix, and it became obvious when we were mixing that we were going to need another two days, and it's very expensive. And I thought: "OK, I can't ask the record company because they've already put enough, so I thought somehow I would put it myself, and I got a call from the company: "I heard that you added two more days", I said "don't worry, I'll pay it", they said, "No, no, no, if you need two more days you'll have two more days". I never took advantage of it, but when you have that, and you have all the people who are involved with the album who really want to make it work, you know, you have time to look at every little bit, and Ozzy Osbourne went into the studio three times in Los Angeles, he said: "I want to do it again", and was treated not as a job, or something...
YM: Like sheep.
RW: Yeah, they just really wanted it to work, and for me that was fantastic! For Patrick Stewart, I had booked only for two hours. He stayed for the whole day. Because he wanted to. And when you've got everybody like that..., you know the band, they are very young, Fraser Thorneycroft-Smith -guitar- is 24, Simon Hanson -drums- is 23, and Phil Williams -bass guitar- is 23 I think, very young guys, and I would put them in the studio and they would mean to be working till five, and get back at ten o'clock and they're still there. "Why are you still here?". Well, we listen to what we did and we wanted to do it again". So all of the time the people just wanted to keep doing it, and that is what made it, to get everybody involved. They really really really wanted it to work. Even the engineers, all of the engineers involved, one classic James Collins and Erik Jordan at CTS studios, they were booked to start every day at 9.30, they were going at 7 o'clock in the morning. Working on things, little problems, just because they just wanted to do it. When you've got that from everybody, in a great encouragement, it makes me work even even even harder. I look to this whole thing and it's taken many years to have the London Symphony Orchestra again to work with, so maybe this is a great opportunity, maybe the last time!, so if I this is gonna be the last time I have to give it everything I've got, so the least I can say: "If this is the last time, then is the best I could ever do it".
YM: You've worked again with the London Symphony Orchestra, 25 years after having some troubles with them because of the recording deals, when you booked them for two concerts for the live recording of "Journey to The Centre of The Earth" on 18th January 1974, and they wanted to get paid for the recording rights of both sessions, even when only one was going to be used. And it took to create the New Symphony Orchestra for the tour. No regrets at all?
RW: No. thing has changed. First of all, in the orchestra, there are only six people left from the original orchestra, which is a different one. Is interesting that the London Symphony Orchestra has women in the orchestra, 25 years ago there were no women. Also, there is a much greater understanding from rock musicians of the orchestra, and a great understanding from the orchestra to the rock musicians. You know, in the 70's the problem was never with the orchestra, it was with the union people involved, and they were very strict, always people who run the orchestra, now they have new management, a lot of new people looking after everything, and they were fantastic, and they signed with the choir. And the other interesting thing is that the orchestra now really understands all the music, for example, there is a track towards the end, "Floodflames", and the initial music of the beginning is timewise, actually very complicated to read musically, everything is changing, is crazy. When we recorded it in the studio with the band, it took a long time to do it, we just kept going wrong, it was ridiculous. We finished, and I wrote it down for the orchestra, and I said to Fraser: "You know Fraser?, this may end up just as a band because I don't think the orchestra will play this, and it took us eight times to get it right". I said, what I will do, I'll try and if it doesn't work I'll do something else. So we went into the studio and it was about the third thing that we recorded, so we put "Floodflames" and I looked to Fraser and also the engineers in the studio who knew that took us eight times to get it right, and they just looked to the top and played first time completely right all the way through. And we just looked at each other, and Fraser said: "Isn't it a bit tricky?", I said: "That's amazing!". The orchestra of 25 years ago could not play this.
"Journey to the Centre of the Earth" Live 1975.
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YM: You have brought back the old Mini Moog for this album, also in "Keys to Ascension, after a long long hibernation. Why now?
RW: Again my boys, they're 27 and 25, and the last two years we were in London, they brought me to clubs to hear new bands, some who I like, some who I didn't, but I was interested in look at the keyboard players, and they all had all the analog: they had Hammonds, and all sorts of things, and nearly all of the ones I spoke to said to me: "Why don't you use the Mini Moog anymore? Cause the Mini Moog is your instrument, is crazy! So when I started this project I said to Stuart Swanley -Rick's engineer- I want to pick some instruments that I want to use, and I'm not gonna tell the company: "Get me everything you can that's new".
YM: Do you own the same Mini Moogs that you owned in the 70s?
RW: No, no. They were stolen I had nine. They were all stolen.
YM: YES were stolen many times in the 70s, at least I can remember a couple of times.
RW: Yes, I had nine Mini Moogs in my life, eleven if I add the new ones, but all of the nine, all of the YES, were stolen. Even also I had a Prophet-10, which I loved and is very hard to find Prophet-10.
YM: Yes, that's right, and even Prophet-5 is hard to find.
RW: Yes, but the 10 is the one I want.
YM: And do you still keep stuff like Polymoog, RMI Keyboard Computer, etc?
RW: The RMI, I have a lot of equipment stolen, about eight years ago. My RMI was stolen, a lot of it was stolen. I have heard that some of it are in private collections. In the same way, I was speaking to Keith Emerson about this last year, who's a friend of mine, you know there's certainly a situation where ... almost like people who collect paintings, there are people who collect equipment. I mean, I had a double Mellotron that was made for me. It was stolen many years ago, and just recently a man wrote to me in America, and he just bought it and he wanted me to authenticate it. And it was in quite bad condition and he wanted to repair it. So I wrote him back and I said: "You know, I'm really glad you've got it. Actually, it was stolen. But don't worry, I'm not asking to give back, I don't want it back, but it was stolen from me.
YM: Are you using the new Mini Moog or the old ones?
RW: No, the old ones.
YM: Have you tried the new one, what do you think about it?
RW: Yeah, they're good... but they're not a Mini Moog.
YM: That's because they work with different transformers...
RW: Yes, is different, the new ones have some advantages, because they are very stable, very accurate, but are not the same. But something that is great about the original Mini Moog is the fact that they are not very stable. And over the time you are playing it things can change, and it makes the instrument exciting. So the new one: yes, very good, but I think it's a shame that is called a Mini Moog because is not really the Mini Moog, is an instrument "based" on the Mini Moog, but I would say you're better off if you want the authentic sound to get the old Mini Moog and just put out with the little problems.
Live at Badalona -Spain- 3/6/76.
YM: Is there any chance of hearing your old Mellotrons & Birotrons again?
Note: Rick Wakeman created in 1976 seven companies, all related to the music industry. One of them was Birontronics Ltd., where he committed David Biro to the creation of a new improved model of the Mellotron, called Birotron. Rick replaced the old Mellotrons for his Birotron in 1978. He played it in the albums "Tormato", "Yesshows", and "Criminal Record".
RW: Oh no!, I don't have any of them!
YM: They're missing!!!
RW: Yeah!, I believe there are six Birotrons left in the world. I heard that one was sold in America last year for $ 35.000.
YM: Wow!, you could be rich now! You only made about 30...
RW: 35. I had four, but two were stolen, and two were damaged beyond repair. So we believe there are six left, and one is in a museum, it has been just bought by Hard Rock Café in America, I believe also for a lot of money because they bought the very original one. I don't have one. I would like to have one, I must admit, I'd love to have one. The Mellotron... I used to have two single Mellotrons and a double special Mellotron. And the two single ones I had, I was so frustrated, because of tuning problems, and the tapes... And full of anger, I took the two Mellotrons into a field, put petrol over them, and I fired them.
YM: You really did that? I can't believe it!
RW: Yeah. And all of them, all the wood, burnt and all the metal just...
YM: Did you enjoy that?
RW: At the time, at the time I enjoyed it, because they had ruined so many sessions through going wrong and breaking, but afterward I regret it. Oh, of course, I regret it!
YM: And they were two 400 Mellotron, isn't it, the white ones?
RW: Yes, so however how many 400 Mellotrons were built, I can tell you there are two fewer. I don't have a Mellotron, a must admit. I suppose for the studio, if one ever came up and it's in very good condition, perhaps I would like one for the studio, but not to take on the road, cause if I take one on the road I would think after four or five days you will find me in a field with petrol and it will be burning.
YM: Well, Julian Cope was last year doing some tour in the UK just with a Mellotron!
RW: Oh, very stupid! No, I did a radio program on The Live of the Mellotron, and it was very funny, and I was interviewing lots of people — it's a good program! — and it was interesting because the people who love it with passion were quite happy to put out all of the problems just to get the sound, and that's fine!
YM: What do you think of the actual revival of the analog synthesizers in electronic and pop music?
RW: I think young musicians have been very clever. Because I speak to a lot of young musicians because of my boys and it is very interesting that a lot of young keyboard players said to me: "You know? You did big mistakes, keyboard players, in the '90s and 80's". And I'd say: "OK, I'm interested. Why we did mistakes?". They said: "When you were in the studio or on stage you had to have the latest model of keyboard, so a keyboard would come out, and then too much for you know it, and later the next model, so you get rid of that ...
YM: Yes, it happens still today.
RW: So he said: "How could you possibly learn about the instrument, too much fast? . We're interested in music, so we come back and listen to sounds you used to make in the '70s and say: That's a great sound!, We want to make that sound! The new instrument can make that sound, so we have the instrument". And they said: "You know?, guitarist they don't buy the latest guitar that comes out, there is a certain sound that they want from 1967, but they're not obsessed with the date". And when I came to make this album a lot of the young musicians that I knew through my boys said: "You are going to put Mini Moog on this, won't you? Because is a great instrument, and nobody makes anything like this anymore". So the young musicians have been really clever. You go to see young bands now and they have Hammond and all sorts of things. So I had a look at everything I got and took out the Roland JD-800 which is a great machine because no longer does anybody put a date on it, this is a new sound, and it has really been good. Older musicians like me are a very good service by sort of giving a prove to all listeners because they can bring them back out, and they are good, they're great.
YM: Do you have any idea of why "No Earthly Connection", "Criminal Record" and "White Rock" are still unreleased on CD?
RW: (Hands on his face like crying).
YM: Again the same question?
RW: No, no, no. It's just very frustrating because two years ago I went to see A&M; in America, and I said, I spoke to the president Al Kafaro, and I said: "Mr. Kafaro, you know you never release this on CD, but there are a lot of people who would like to, what are you doing?". He said: "We have no plans to release this on CD because they're all on Polygram". And I said: "Would you license to me so I can release them, I don't own any rights anymore of any of these albums, so I won't earn any money, but I just think it's important that it comes out". And he said: "OK, I'll see what I can do". And they arranged a contract two years ago to license back the three albums, and they signed a contract, and one week before it was due to be signed A&M, and Polygram was sold to Seagram. And with Seagram we signed the contract, send it back and they said: "We're not doing it". And I said: "Are you going to do it?". And they said: "No you can't have them". So after two years coming so close, they said "We're not interested". And we tried very hard, but there's absolutely nothing I can do.
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Topographic sessions at Manticore Studio, 1972.
YM: There is a story that claims that you, the members of YES, made a sort of agreement during the Topographic Tour, back in the '70s, to work together as a band in the 21st Century. Is it true?
RW: Jon Anderson always says that is true! The rest of us are not sure, because during the Topographic Oceans period I was full, not of hope for the future, but very full mainly of whisky, so I can't remember very much. No, this came about when we were in San Louis Obispo recording "Keys to Ascension", and we were having dinner, all of this, and Jon said: "Do you remember... when we did "Topographic Oceans" we all said that we would be together in the year 2000? And actually, there was something, because we all remember signing on a table cloth, in a restaurant, we all signed something in the table cloth.
YM: But...not in a paper?
RW: No, no, on the table cloth, yeah.
YM: And you took it out of the restaurant...
RW: Nobody knows where is it...
YM: It's like the Holy Shroud of YES fans!!
:-)))))))
RW: Nobody knows where is it or what happened to it. It was taken, but nobody knew what happened. And a journalist heard about this and wrote it, so it became that YES would be together in the millennium, and there is always going to be a YES in the millennium, whether is the five people who signed that.
YM: So, are you interested in working again as a member of YES in the future?
RW: It's very difficult for me, because... Sometimes is hard for people to understand that even now when I was in the band and not in the band, I'm still a fan and a great fan of YES. I love YES really, so I have very strong views on the direction which YES needed to take in the last part of the '90s. And basically, I was the only one who really would feel the way that YES should go. And I did not agree with what everybody wanted to do.
"Keys To Ascension" recordings at San Luis Obispo.
YM: Can you give some details?
RW: Yeah!, OK. When we did "Keys to Ascension" and "Keys to Ascension 2", I listened very carefully to the albums, and I thought: OK, we have here everybody is playing very well. Steve is playing great guitar, Jon is singing well, Chris is playing great, Alan is playing his best drums for many years, and I'm playing well. But for me there was something ... and I went back and listened to an early album, and I know what it is. With all of the older albums, we were not only playing well but pushing new ground, there was always a new idea that came in. An nearly all of the songs started with Jon with a melody line, a great melody, and I like the "And You And I" melody, and that's what started everything up to make some music. Nearly all of the music, reasonably, has been started from a rhythm bass with Jon adding on the top, which limits very much what Jon can do with a great melody. And I thought: Why is this? And it's because perhaps is too close between albums. For a band like YES we need time to go on and work with other people until work with other ideas. Jon was at his strongest when he... He went to live with the Hopi Indian. And came back with lots of ideas. I went off working a lot of solo stuff, working with a lot of people with new keyboard ideas. And Alan was at his best when he was ... "I've been in Africa, I've found these new ideas". So we're still good players, but we come back with new ideas this time. And I said: "You know guys? I really feel we need to spend time apart and work with other people, so when we come back, we're not better players still, but we've got lots of great new ideas to put in, so we can put YES music in a new direction. And they were talking of doing another sort of re-launch of YES doing a theatre tour. And I said: "For me, YES is not a theatre band, YES is an arena band, with a fantastic production, a great great show". And I said: "I cannot go round the theatres, you know, playing all the old hits, which I love doing. When we have done them, back in the "Union" Tour in the arenas was fantastic. It is just how YES needs to be presented, so, wouldn't it be a great idea if we spend two years, all getting new ideas and then come together really excited with lots of new music, lots of ideas, put it all together, make a fantastic album to go into the millennium, with a big arena show to go with it. And nobody agrees. No, no, no, we just want to go out now, let's do another album... And it's another album for me of not going forward with YES. For me, we should go forward. Nobody agrees, so I say: "OK, I'm going off anyway because I want to do my "Return to The Centre of The Earth", which is important for me to do". And they said: "Fine". They did the tour, you know, when they came to England they telephoned me and said: "Would you like to make the tour?". And I said: "You know, I wish you much success, but this is not how I see YES, this is not right. For me it's like Real Madrid playing football in the park — Note: Real Madrid is a Spanish football team —. You know? You understand?
YM: Yeah! It deserves something better.
RW: Is not right. It deserves something better! Is a very very very special band. And it deserves something special and it deserves ...
YM: But do you really think it's possible because of the industry?
RW: Not anymore. I think could it be possible if we were well prepared and had good management, and in YES for me have not had good management for years. And I think it needed good management to go to record companies and say: "Listen, YES is not doing anything for three years, they're going to go away, they can prepare an album for the millennium, and do some arena dates". I think the record company would say: "Yeah, OK". I think that could be done. But it can't be done now, and I don't think it will ever be now, and I don't know what could happen. But I love the band, you know, they are recording another album now. You know, I know how long it takes to write music for big productions, it has only been less than one year since their last one. Is not possible for a quality YES album to do this.
YM: I can tell you that YES fans have been waiting for a long time to get an album, as you say, with more time of production, and we're still waiting for that.
RW: I can tell you, what is sad for me is I'm a fan as well, even when I'm not in the band. Whatever they may say, whatever they like me or hate me, I love the band, I love the guys very much. It upsets me when I see the record sales come right down low, I see the concerts come right down low, and it makes me sad because I know that the support for the band is there. But it's because the band is for me, and including when we did "Keys to Ascension", is not delivering what fans expect to be delivered. And that is for me what is sad. And I am to blame as much as anyone, I'm not saying is their fault, I am to blame because when we did "Keys to Ascension" and we put the new material there, "Keys to Ascension" shouldn't have been what it was meant to be because the live performance, which is like to say "Hey, werÚ back together", this is just a stop to get to tell you we're back together, we're now gonna spend time, a lot of time putting together a really good studio album. But the record company push, the management push: "No, no, do it now, do it now!", and we were not ready! And I am as much to blame as everybody else because I should stand up and say "No". But I didn't.
YM: Jon Anderson has said that he is very interested in doing a revision of Tales from Topographic Oceans with an orchestra. Would you be interested in that?
RW: No. I think "Topographic Oceans" would have to be completely re-written. Because there are not enough substance, melody, or ideas to make it interesting for an orchestra.
YM: You know? I used to love the album, and still, I do, but I read some commentaries you did about it, and thought about it and tried to see the things from a different perspective and I think you were right.
RW: And Jon actually agree. Jon and I agree on a lot of things, but if CDs have been available in 1973 when "Topographic" was done, there were never have been a problem, because on "Topographic Oceans" there is about 50 minutes of good music, and we would have made 50 minutes of "Topographic Oceans", of four pieces, maybe 12 minutes-10 minutes long. But because there were the confines of an album, we had too much music for one album, not enough for two. So instead of bringing it down to one, we just -what I call- padded it out to make two. And Jon and I, Jon want it very much to get Atlantic to let him edit to make a CD of 50 minutes, and Atlantic records said: "No, no, no. It stays as it is". So is very interesting that the big arguments were because of the confines of what we were actually doing. But I can tell you, because, as an orchestra you could do it, anybody can orchestrate as it is for an orchestra, but it would not sound very interesting because there is not enough, it would have to be re-written for an orchestra. What I would like to do it! If I could do one thing with any YES album, I would like to take "Tormato" and completely re-mix "Tormato", because there was some fantastic playing, and especially from Steve on that album, and great songs. But the mix, the production, was terrible. Because there were so many engineers and producers, that the sound ended up so compressed that it was a very very bad sound. And I would love to be able to re-mix that album. And the other thing I would love to do, but I don't think it will ever happen, will be to get hold of the original tapes from the sessions in France in 1979...
Tormato Tour 1978.
YM: Oh, I was just about to ask you about that!
RW: ...and for Jon, I would like to go with Jon into a studio and finish it.
YM: But the tapes are missing, isn't it?
RW: Nobody knows where they are. But I would love to get hold of them, and maybe would it be a nice album for me, would be to take "Tormato" remixed, and take the songs from the France sessions and put it together to make a 70 minutes CD, because it was almost the same period, during 78 and 79, and it's a good period and would match very nicely. I would love to do that, but I don't think Atlantic would let me, and I don't think anybody knows where the tapes are, and I've heard all sorts of stories. What is quite interesting is that I've heard that all the original tapes and film footage from the "Union" tour have now been bought by somebody, and I think will be released later this year. And I heard there is a complete video and a complete soundtrack for the CD. I think that is great because I think that the "Union" tour was very very important.
CREDITS: Interview by: Koldo Barroso — Topographic Sounds — Assisted by: Manuel Macía. Special thanks to Pablo Gonzalo Seoane, and Pilar García — EMI Classics — This is a Topographic Sound's work for YES MUSEUM.
PHOTO CREDITS 1, 7: Manuel Macía. 3: F. Fabregas. 5: Sky Bergman.
Recovered via Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20191222104848/http://yesmuseum.org/WakeView1.html
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